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How To Survive Disappearing E-mail
Written by DarqueWing   
Friday, 20 October 2006

Imagine this:

After a late night discussing politics with a friend or posting a message online, your front door is blown open.  Twelve men in black uniforms – you can't tell if they are military or police – storm through your home.  Within fifteen minutes, your computer, your phone, your answering machine, your filing cabinet, even your book collection has been confiscated.  You and your possessions are loaded into a nondescript black van.  Your captors have not said a word to you, and will not respond in any way to your questions.

You might be in Guantanamo Bay, you might be in Guam, you might be in Cairo – there's absolutely no indication where in the world you might be.  And still, nobody tells you anything.

You ride in silence for 45 minutes.  A bag is placed over your head, and you are taken off the van and, judging from the sound, onto a plane of some kind.  17 hours later, you are brought into your new prison cell.  You might be in Guantanamo Bay, you might be in Guam, you might be in Cairo – there's absolutely no indication where in the world you might be.  And still, nobody tells you anything.

And then they torture you.  At first it seems silly, but then it's painful, humiliating, degrading.  You tell them just about anything they want to hear – and they want to hear it all.

Three weeks later, you finally get your chance in court – but it's not a court, it's a military tribunal.  The whole proceeding is different from what you've seen on TV courtroom shows, and you can barely understand what's going on.  Just a few hours later, all the "evidence" has been submitted, including the files on your laptop, the titles of the books you owned, all the emails and IMs you've written or received in the last year, and recordings of what you told your interrogators to get them to give you food.

You are found guilty of treason and aiding the enemy.  You are to be held indefinitely in this prison, and you don't even know what continent you're on.  You're innocent, of course, of any such crime, although at this point, that doesn't make any difference.

Or, even worse, you never even see a tribunal.  They just toss you in prison and forget about you. 

What can you do?

This post was supposed to be a how-to guide for being "disappeared."  I sincerely thought that a well-reasoned, logical investigation would turn up all sorts of useful tricks to try – although it's never wise to try to represent yourself in the courtroom, your only alternative is the tribunal-appointed attorney who just wants to submit a guilty plea.

I thought that you could challenge jurisdiction, or demand your own attorney.  I thought you might challenge the constitutionality of the law.  I looked for loopholes, for loose ends, for any little scrap of hope.

I'm sorry to say, folks, but I came up with nothing.  As far as I can tell, if you're taken into custody under the 2006 MCA, you're going to be in your secret prison until they decide to let you out.  No appeals, no other judicial oversight, no writing your Congressman – all avenues have been cut off.  Even if you do get into one of these military tribunals, there's not much you can do except sit there and hope the judge finds you innocent.

Well, that's not the way the justice system was supposed to work, obviously.  But this is where we're at: everything you knew – everything anyone knew – about how the law works is, in this case, irrelevant.  Judicial review is the most powerful tool in the world for idiot laws like this.  The MCA can't possibly withstand judicial review, so they made sure that no court would ever get to review it, except for the secret courts that they can engineer however they wish.

I'm still looking, though, for any little bit of strategy that our hypothetical secret prisoner might be able to use.  But in the meantime, you ought to be looking over your shoulder – the days of "innocent until proven guilty," the days of getting a fair trial, the days of justice are over.

 




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What a nightmare
Anti-nazi (Unregistered) 2006-10-23 23:06:22

I guess most people in america are not paying attention ? Or they don't care enough to do anything about it ? Or they like it ? WTF

 

It is ridiculous
New Yorker (Unregistered) 2006-10-23 23:17:20

It isn't that americans aren't paying attention. It is that our elected representatives at this point go along with everything and anything that the President wishes. Consolidation of the Exectutive branch of our government. The majority of young americans get their news from joke shows like "The Daily Show" and "The Colbert Report". The government yells terrorist and everyone jumps. Not to mention there are people in America that actually SUPPORT all of this, every bit. They would watch a television show of it in action. Its pathetic and horrific. If anyone out there is thinking about moving to the USA don't. I can't wait to move out.
Just wait till you see the ID cards they are going to come out with, absolutely ridiculous track your movements, cops will be able to stop anyone at anytime and ask for their papers.

 

Protect Yourself
Sam Tesort (Unregistered) 2006-10-23 23:26:43

I've heard that keeping the Wall Street Journal with you or a similar right wing publication can keep you from disappearing. It shows your loyalty, and all that.

 

Heath (Unregistered) 2006-10-24 08:30:32

People care more about what Paris Hilton is wearing than whether their "president" is upholding the "piece of paper" called the Constitution. Partly the fault of the media for rarely, if ever, looking at what Bush is doing. Shows like The Daily Show and The Colbert Report use satire to inform. People like Keith Olberman speak out. But if no one is listening, it doesn't matter.

 

Pete Crowther (Unregistered) 2006-10-24 11:16:13

Well, I have to say, from a British point of view, its all your own fault.

 

Additional Information
MistakenIdentity (Unregistered) 2006-10-24 14:27:20

Fortunately this law does not apply to American citizens as they cannot be declared as "enemy combatants" under this law.

Habeas rights are only denied to aliens of the United States as defined:

a person who has engaged in hostilities or who has purposefully and materially supported hostilities against the United States or its co-belligerents who is not a lawful enemy combatant (including a person who is part of the Taliban, al Qaeda, or associated forces); or `(ii) a person who, before, on, or after the date of the enactment of the Military Commissions Act of 2006, has been determined to be an unlawful enemy combatant by a Combatant Status Review Tribunal or another competent tribunal established under the authority of the President or the Secretary of Defense.

Human Rights Watch has also concluded that the new law limits the trials by military commission to non-U.S. citizens including all legal aliens.

The Constitution of the United States of America guarantees the right of habeas corpus to U.S. citizens, and not to the citizens of the world.

The reasoning for military tribunals of enemy combatants and closed-door sessions is the security of the United States of America. Lawyers who have access to enemy combatants also have access to classified documents that could endanger the safety of the United States. Therefore any lawyer who defends an enemy combatant must have a certain security clearance.

Enemy combatants are given many rights they wouldn't be afforded in their own countries. They are presumed innocent, and the prosecution has the burden of proof. They also have a right of counsel paid by the American taxpayer. They also get interpreters and can choose whether to testify against themselves. They can present evidence and cross-exam witnesses etc etc.

So, if you are a foreign citizen and you are taken under the 2006 MCA my advice to you would be to talk to the attorney provided and force the prosecution to prove your guilt as you would in any western court of law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Commissions_Act_of_2006

 

American Citizens?
DarqueWing (Author) 2006-10-24 23:45:46

So, MistakenIdentity, all it takes to declare an American citizen as an enemy combatant is to revoke the person's citizenship?

I can no longer maintain the illusion that our government is above using such tactics. Hell, I'm not sure they would even bother using a tactic at all: who's to say that the administration would even bother to put up a pretense of fairness, and instead simply drop American citizens into Gitmo anyway? Case in point: in Hamdi v Rumsfeld, Yaser Hamdi, an American citizen, had been declared an enemy combatant and placed in a military prison. The result? SCOTUS called the government's foul, and declared the imprisonment unconstitutional. The deal? Hamdi was forced to renounce his citizenship and go to Saudi Arabia.

Sure, Hamdi was pretty much Saudi anyway - he was born in Louisiana by coincidence. His parents, guest workers at that time, had no intention of staying in the US or attaining citizenship, and promptly went back to Saudi Arabia. So here we are - revoking citizenship. Does it matter that he hadn't lived his whole life in the US? Will it matter that the next one's only second-generation American? Will it matter that I'm only third-generation on one side?

Our government has already shown that they have no problem, as Dick Cheney once put it, using the "dark side," or playing fast and loose with the law. Attorney General Gonzalez seems to tell Bush that as long as he's president, everything he does is perfectly legal, up to and including the use of illegally-obtained evidence, torture, detainment without trial - despite the Supreme Court's decisions. And if SCOTUS gets in the way, he can just get his pet Congress to pass a law that makes what he's done legal - which is, in itself, yet another clear breach of law.

If the Judicial Branch doesn't have its own army to enforce its decisions, there's absolutely nothing that can convince me that the Executive Branch will adhere to any set of laws, even the Constitution. Recent history reflects this: when SCOTUS decided Hamdi v Rumsfeld, Congress pushed through the 2006 MCA, which defines all sorts of things for "enemy combatants." One of the most interesting bits is that of timing: many of the definitions and restrictions use the phrasing "on, after, or before September 11th." That means that this law is retroactively enabled, and can be used to prosecute people that had committed a crime before the passing of the law, and even mentions the exact date of a specific attack that has already passed. This is a clear example of both ex post facto law and a bill of attainder, both terms set out clearly within the Constitution itself, not even the Bill of Rights. There is no caveat on bills of attainder or ex post facto laws that make them applicable only to US citizens. The Constitution expressly forbids them: "No bill of attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed." (Article I, Section 9)

So, can the 2006 MCA be used against citizens? I'll betcha it will be. It's just a matter of time until the next Hamdi comes along - even if it's a Smith or Jones this time - and the government decides to see how much they can get away with again.

 

re: It is ridiculous
Conrad (Unregistered) 2006-10-25 14:27:55

New Yorker wrote:
It isn't that americans aren't paying attention. It is that our elected representatives at this point go along with everything and anything that the President wishes. Consolidation of the Exectutive branch of our government. The majority of young americans get their news from joke shows like "The Daily Show" and "The Colbert Report". The government yells terrorist and everyone jumps. Not to mention there are people in America that actually SUPPORT all of this, every bit. They would watch a television show of it in action. Its pathetic and horrific. If anyone out there is thinking about moving to the USA don't. I can't wait to move out.
Just wait till you see the ID cards they are going to come out with, absolutely ridiculous track your movements, cops will be able to stop anyone at anytime and ask for their papers.


You are wrong, people do pay attention but they do nothing. We let our representatives do what they do, We let them stay in office after legislation like this is past. It is our own damn fault. People need to take responsibility for their own actions. Democracy puts the responsibility on the voter, where it should be.

 

Arkam Snevets (Unregistered) 2006-10-26 11:28:54

[--- deleted --- see next comment for details ---- -sm ]

 

re: Arkam Snevets
admin (Super Administrator) 2006-10-26 11:29:13

...had to delete the above post by "Arkam Snevets."

Sorry, folks, I'm all for freedom of expression, but I won't have people coming on the site and making (or even insinuating) threats of direct physical violence.

Got something to say? Fine, lay out your arguments and post them, but don't resort to stupid and childish threats.

-sm

 

Big Scam
Eric (Unregistered) 2006-10-25 17:35:10

Yeah so the US criminal system (Title 18) is a big giant scam that doesnt apply to real people anyways, only through implied contracts with the federal reserve dollar note system and the Dept of the Treasury and Social Security. www.jca-psasl.org has all the evidence.

 

Anonymous (Unregistered) 2006-10-26 11:11:36

Quote:
MistakenIdentity wrote:
Fortunately this law does not apply to American citizens as they cannot be declared as "enemy combatants" under this law. Habeas rights are only denied to aliens of the United States as defined:

a person who has engaged in hostilities or who has purposefully and materially supported hostilities against the United States or its co-belligerents who is not a lawful enemy combatant (including a person who is part of the Taliban, al Qaeda, or associated forces);


So where exactly does it say that this doesn't apply to American citizens? Where does it say that it only applies to "alien" enemy combatants?

I've read the full text of the 2006 MCA (not just your blurb), and the answer is: it doesn't.

The language is purposely vague, and the result is that an "unlawful enemy combatant" is legally defined as ANYONE -- American or otherwise -- "who has engaged in hostilities or who has purposefully and materially supported hostilities against the United States or its co-belligerents." This means that someone who, say, stages a peaceful protest against the war or passes out anti-war pamphlets could be labeled an "unlawful enemy combatant" for "supporting hostilities" by aiding the enemy's propaganda. Bush has made several comments to this effect recently (as well as suggesting that Democrats who oppose the war are committing "treason"), though they haven't taken it quite that far yet. The scary part is that, under MCA 2006, they could.

Also notice that the 2006 MCA says "(including a person who is part of the Taliban, al Qaeda, or associated forces)." Not "limited to," but "including." It applies to ANY PERSON who is determined by a Combat Status Review Tribunal to have aided the enemy in any way, even simply through "moral support" by openly and vocally disagreeing with the war. American citizens are, at no point in the MCA, exempted.

Mistaken Identity goes on to state that:
Quote:
Human Rights Watch has also concluded that the new law limits the trials by military commission to non-U.S. citizens including all legal aliens.


Well, I just came from HRW's site, and while they *do* conclude that "Any non-U.S. citizen – even a green card holder who has lived in the United States for decades – who is determined to be an 'unlawful enemy combatant' can be tried by a military commission," it also goes on to point out the loophole: "The Bush administration has indicated that it has no intention of trying the vast majority of detainees held at Guantanamo Bay. Indeed, it is expected that only a few dozen Guantanamo detainees will ever be charged before a military commission, leaving the majority of detainees at Guantanamo in prolonged detention without charge, stripped of their habeas rights, and without ever being confronted with the evidence against them."

So who can be detained indefinitely with no rights whatsoever? According to HRW: "The MCA expands the definition of 'combatant' to include those who have 'purposefully and materially' supported hostilities against the United States, even if they have not taken part in the hostilities themselves, and even if they are arrested far from the battlefield. This turns ordinary civilians – such as a mother giving food to her combatant son, an individual who sends money to a banned group, or a U.S. resident who commits a criminal act unrelated to armed conflict – into 'combatants' who can be placed in military custody and hauled before a military commission."

http://hrw.org/backgrounder/usa/qna1006/

While HRW concludes only that "U.S. Residents" may also be labeled "enemy combatants" (as opposed to U.S. citizens), at no point in the text of MCA 2006 does it actually limit itself to labeling only non-citizens as "enemy combatants."

As Bruce Ackerman, professor of law at Yale and author of Before the Next Attack: Preserving Civil Liberties in an Age of Terrorism, puts it:

"Buried in the complex Senate compromise on detainee treatment is a real shocker, reaching far beyond the legal struggles about foreign terrorist suspects in the Guantanamo Bay fortress. The compromise legislation, which is racing toward the White House, authorizes the president to seize American citizens as enemy combatants, even if they have never left the United States. And once thrown into military prison, they cannot expect a trial by their peers or any other of the normal protections of the Bill of Rights."

Again, MCA 2006 makes American citizens fair game.

If that doesn't scare you, this (from HRW's site) should: "These definitions have essentially been invented by the administration and Congress. They have no basis in international law and undermine one of the most fundamental pillars of the Geneva Conventions – the distinction between combatants, who engage in hostilities and are subject to attack, and non-combatants."

That's right. If you, American citizen or otherwise, are determined by a military Combat Status Review panel (under authority of the President or Secretary of Defense) to be an "enemy combatant" -- even if you've never taken part in physical hostilities, but are simply vocal about your opposition to the war (or do anything which they determine to "aid hostilities") -- you can be physically attacked and killed. Legally.

 

Anonymous (Unregistered) 2006-10-27 00:49:33

One might hypothesize about strange possibilities like this, but really... the government won't just randomly toss you (the average man on the street) in jail. They have no reason to do so. The fact that you might protest against their actions (online or in person) does not constitute enough of a reason, simply becuase they don't have the resources to dispose of all their political opponents... and it makes for really bad press.

Of course, Muslims who give money to terrorist organizations and spread anti-American propaganda are boned.

 

Randomly jailed?
DarqueWing (Author) 2006-10-27 15:32:36

Anonymous #1 - awesome post. Quite true, there's absolutely no guarantee anywhere in this bill that American citizens won't get nabbed. Even if they wanted to keep up that appearance, however, as I said before, citizenship can be revoked, so either way, there's not much protection for citizens in this bill.

Anonymous #2: No, of course random jailing was never the issue, Anonymous. I'm far more worried about some military tribunal deciding that to win the war on terror, they must win the hearts and minds of the people, and since I, and others like me, tend to prevent the hearts and minds of the people to think of America as a purely benevolent force, then I'm providing aid to the terrorists. In short, the fact that someone protests may very well be enough for them to dispose of us.

And bad press? If the only people left are those that either don't care or actively support the 2006 MCA, then getting rid of peaceniks like me will be good press - getting rid of anti-American sentiments, and all that. Who knows - they might even parade pictures of the hippies during the Super Bowl halftime show, saying that this makes the country safer.

Thing is, Anonymous #2, you seem to be able to trust the government to distinguish the good guys from the bad guys, and you seem to trust them only to use this bill to punish the bad guys. That's a lot of trust, and more than I can summon for this government - but before you think I'm just trashing Bush, I couldn't possibly trust ANY government, staffed by ANY president, to wield that much power in secret.

The way I understand the Constitution, and the way the drafters wrote it, would seem to indicate that they were really worried about governments who said they could do exactly that and then do the opposite: the British said they had the colonists' best interests in mind, and then screwed them at every opportunity. That's why there's so many guarantees to accused criminals; from habeas corpus to the right to not self-incriminate, to the right to face one's accusers, the Constitution and Bill of Rights is set up to protect people from arbitrary abuses of power - specifically, the power to arrest and imprison citizens. That's a scary power, because it deprives people of their freedoms that are supposed to be guaranteed by both natural and manmade law. Therefore, there are a great many safeguards placed on the system, and the system itself is captured by the phrase "due process." Depriving people of both due process and their liberty is, under the Constitution, supposed to be completely impossible.

But not with the MCA - this law allows the government to circumvent all those safeguards and protections that keep innocent people from being punished. It's specifically and narrowly designed to make sure that, whenever the government wants, it can ignore those safeties and act arbitrarily, all completely free from scrutiny. This is the exact opposite of what our Constitution - the very Constitution that Bush swore to protect - has stood for all these years.

 

re: British point of view
AmericanPOV (Unregistered) 2006-11-09 16:15:05

Pete Crowther wrote:
Well, I have to say, from a British point of view, its all your own fault.


Well, then my response is that Tony Blair is all your fault.

 

Tony Blair
melanie (Unregistered) 2006-11-10 01:53:01

I LIKE Tony Blair. I have misgivings about our government, but up to this point in history, Americans have the ability to speak their peace about what they see going on in the government without being put in prison. Up to this point, anyway.

 

what to do
dockjockey (Unregistered) 2006-11-12 12:08:09

Well, from a military point of view it
s easy. You just stick to your name an number. Once you get to the point of breaking stick with one idea in your head like "I want ice cream". When you reach that point just keep screaming and thinking I want ice cream. That is one of the tricks they tecah us. My one thing was my Bible. It was something I could focus on intently and it works.

 

Citizen Smith (Unregistered) 2006-12-21 14:06:20

Citizens don't have numbers, genius.

 

re: Citizen Smith
ShadowMonkey (Unregistered) 2006-12-21 14:23:51

Not sure what your point is, but what do you think a Social Security Number is?

Also, the comment by dockjockey was regarding military service, wherein service number (old) and social security number (recent) are widely used.

-sm

 

US CITIZEN
patrick (Unregistered) 2007-04-06 02:40:10

THIS IS NO JOKE FOLKS. BUSH HAS ALREADY SAID OPENLY. I QUOTE. THE CONSTITUTION IS NOTHING BUT A GODDAMN PIECE OF PAPER. VOTE FOR RON PAUL IN 2008 IT'S OUR ONLY CHANCE.BUSH AND CHENEY ARE NOT GOING TO LEAVE OFFICE WITHOUT A HUGE FIGHT. THE POLICE STATE AND OUR OWN TROOPS VS UNARMED CITIZENS.THESE PLANS ARE IN PLACE. NEW ORLEANS WAS A DRY RUN FOR FEMA. THEY ARE SELF NAMED NEOCONS. READ THE NEOCON PHYLOSOPHY. GEORGE BUSHES GRAND FATHER PRESCOT BUSH WAS CONVICTED OF TREASON. TRADING WITH HITLER BEFORE DURING AND AFTER WWIII LOOK IT UP IN WICKIPEDIA ENCYCLEPEDIA. THIS EVIL COULD GET REAL UGLY. AND UNFORTUNTLY A LOT OF US ARE GOING TO DIE, I'M TALKING MILLIONS. WE WILL BE FORCED TO GO TO THERE CONCENTRATION CAMPS (CITIZEN PROTECTION CENTERS)BECAUSE THERE PLAN WILL BE COUPLED WITH AN ECONOMIC COLAPSE, YOU WILL HAVE NO FOOD OR WATER RESERVES (I WILL) AND YOU'LL SEE THE PROTECTION CENTERS AS YOUR ONLY SALVATION. THERE ARE PRESENTLY AT LEAST 800 CONCENTRATION CAMPS IN THE USA NOW THAT WE KNOW OF.MEN WOMAN CHILDREN FAMILY'S WILL BE SEPERATED. YES JUST LIKE NAZI GERMANY. BE VERY PREPARED AND PRAY. GOD BLESS US ALL.

 

CITIZEN OF THE FORMER USA
patrick (Unregistered) 2007-04-06 03:16:11

HERE'S THE DEAL. ALL OF THESE CANCELLED CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS THAT HAVE BEEN PASSED AND THE HUNDREDS OF EDICTS BY GEORGE II HAVE BEEN PASSED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT BY OUR CONGRESS. SOMETIME LIKE THE UNPATRIOT ACT WITHOUT THEM EVEN READING IT. HOW YOU ASK, SIMPLE. THE CIA GETS SOMETHING ON A LOT OF THEM. USE YOU IMAGINATION HERE.AND HOLDS IT OVER THERE HEAD. OLDEST DAMN TRICK IN THE BOOK. OUR GOVERNMENT AND MEDIA HAVE BEEN HIJACKED. OUR GOVERNMENT IS THE REAL TERORISTS. THIS IS THE END GAME. WE LIVE IN A ROGUE STATE. A FULL BLOWN DICTATORSHIP. GEORGE BUSH TOLD ALL OF US I QUOTE,I AM THE DECIDER! DO YOU GET IT NOW? GOOD YOU MIGHT HAVE A CHANCE.

 

Don't mean to wreck your fun,
Anton L (Unregistered) 2007-06-01 16:10:56

Unbelievable. What is this, a support group for paranoid neurotics? The government isn’t going to kick your door in and “disappear” you because they spotted a “Bush Sucks” bumper sticker on you Volvo. These laws are designed to handle people scheming violent attacks against mass numbers of citizens. I for one am still living the same awesome life in America that I was twenty years ago. . .what world are you guys living in?

“BUSH ISN’T LEAVING WITHOUT A FIGHT.” That is the funniest thing I’ve ever heard. And you are a year and change away from realizing how delusional you are.

“NEW ORLEANS WAS A DRY RUN FOR FEMA” Dude. . . . .Do you live at Neverland Ranch?


Open up the basement windows and get some fresh air, people. Better yet, go outside and get some exercise. You can always go back to mutually brain-washing each other later.

 

re: All your own fault
Alastair (Unregistered) 2008-01-06 10:52:21

Pete Crowther wrote:
Well, I have to say, from a British point of view, its all your own fault.

Maybe all their own fault, but we are only a few steps behind them - we are sleepwalking into the same problem. People here are in general also being lined up by the media against 'terrorism' and if someone burns our Reichstag do you think our MPs/Lords are strong enough to resist public cries for internment? Add an economic depression+peak oil and a permanent state of emergency is possible - I'd say likely.

 

re: Don't mean to wreck your
Alastair (Unregistered) 2008-01-06 11:06:39

Anton L wrote:
Unbelievable. What is this, a support group for paranoid
... Paranoid is not an appropriate term - vigilance and hypervigilance is far more appropriate. And at this stage in human history we have to listen to the lessons of the past. Particularly given the attitudes of neo-cons, the state of the media, economic bad times ahead (ever heard of the Kondratieff cycle? and the events in the 1930s that validated it), peak oil, over population, etc etc. Hitler was just a man, an everyday man, until power made him an insane murderer who infected half a nation with his evil. Who is protecting us from the emergence of Satan's spawn just like him. Being paranoid might even be wise right now.

 

re: re: Don't mean to wreck y
Awake (Unregistered) 2008-01-06 11:49:57

Alastair wrote:
[quote=Anton L]Unbelievable. What is this, a support group for paranoid

Personally, I don't think we are paranoid ENOUGH. Get your heads out of the sand, and realize our government has it's own agenda....and it's NOT what's good for the people.

 

re: Don't mean to wreck your
Awake (Unregistered) 2008-01-06 11:59:45

Let's see what "your awesome life in America" looks like in the next 2 years, dude.
Count your Ameros, learn Spanish and French, and remember, "The Constitution is just a goddamn piece of paper". You'll do well with that.

Anton L wrote:
Unbelievable. What is this, a support group for paranoid neurotics? The government isn’t going to kick your door in and “disappear” you because they spotted a “Bush Sucks” bumper sticker on you Volvo. These laws are designed to handle people scheming violent attacks against mass numbers of citizens. I for one am still living the same awesome life in America that I was twenty years ago. . .what world are you guys living in?

“BUSH ISN’T LEAVING WITHOUT A FIGHT.” That is the funniest thing I’ve ever heard. And you are a year and change away from realizing how delusional you are.

“NEW ORLEANS WAS A DRY RUN FOR FEMA” Dude. . . . .Do you live at Neverland Ranch?


Open up the basement windows and get some fresh air, people. Better yet, go outside and get some exercise. You can always go back to mutually brain-washing each other later.

 

Survivalist
American Citizen (Unregistered) 2008-02-14 15:56:12

Ignorance is NOT bliss! The illusion of freewill, I find almost everyone I know wanting desperatley to cling on to. When I notice that, I simply stop talking to them. By there unwillingness to observe and to educate themselves as I am always promoting shows there value in there ownself. I'll not waste my breath on those who find happiness in slavery. I refuse to beleive Im powerless about this. I CONTROL MY DESTINY! So I'm in this for ME, yes and YOUR children.
Patrick Henry, did infact say "Give me liberty or give me death!"
How is anything different today?
Is life worth living if it isnt on your own terms?

When John Hancock was asked why he signed his name on the Declaration of Independance in such large penmanship, he replied; "So fat George can see it all the way from England!"
He and the other patriotic Americans were commiting treason just convening to sign such a document.
The news media and the CFR claim terrorists are everywhere and there lurking behind every street sign to hurt you. They arent talking of themselves (which they should be) and they arent talking about foregin terrorists. They would claim that I just by having this outlook and this wanting of freedom, am indeed a terrorist....
I consider it a priveledge to be called the same thing that Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, all of the people on our false currency were called.
They too were called terrorists. Treasonists, Usurpers of the crown.
Well if being a patriotic American is no different than being a terrorist. Then I'll gladly wear the title with pride! I love America, I love our Constitution, I love our flag!
I DO NOT WANT TO CAUSE BLOODSHED OR VIOLENCE.
I just want to have my "inalienable" god-given rights back.. Is that too much to ask?

Why are there Gas chambers poised at the ready to kill off hundreds of American citizens in a moments notice?
Why did 3000 Americans have to die in 9/11? So a small few can further there agenda. I value myself my life my freedom. I see my freedom as my life. Without it your not living your serving.
I already served in the United States Army. Ive already received my "illness"
my "anthrax vaccine". You see now why its personal for me. Everyday, I die faster!

If I can help spread this message, that our country is being subverted and being polluted and manipulated into a fascist one world regime. That everyones children are at very severe risk! That life as we know it is on the edge of something very different indeed. Then I will feel as if I have done something to contribute to the people of this country, not the very few who just get rich on the death of Americans.

Tell me. How is my agenda wrong? How is the spreading of information wrong? Arent teachers being paid to do that today? I know bad example "leave no child behind". But the fact is Im NOT being paid to help Americans. Atleast not monetarily.
Infact I could honestly care less to receive the same tool used to subvert and enslave the American people and even the world. The less of that I get the happier I am. Do not think Im saying give your money away. I dont care what YOU do. My goal is set. My resolve firm. My love for America and for freedom unyielding!

I do hope that Americans can find themselves in a peaceful way, able to resolve this debacle. This foul, and vile subversion and enslavment of the world. The facts are written in history. The chess board is in YOUR face yet YOU choose not to see it.
I dont blame you, ignorance is bliss right? But at what cost. Freedom should never be something to view upon with indifference!

My life has value. Im worth something. More than enslavment or death. Arent your children worth something? Arent your children worth actually investigating these claims? Rather than sticking your head in the sand and assuming everything will be okay?
At what point, at what time, what event will it take for you to realize that something is indeed wrong with
EVERYTHING around you?
Well since noone except, a small few, "woke" up after 9/11. Im assuming they will notice when they stand next to there children in the gas chamber that there tax dollars went into constructing. How very sad indeed.

Well that is what im trying to enlighten people of. They hate me for it! Im destroying there world! Im tearing down there happy go lucky life and showing them how horrible it is. I say good.
Every individual can do something, failure to act is never an excuse.
Procrastination is akin to mastrubation your only screwing yourself.

God bless America!

 

wagar4075@comcast.net
terry wagar (Unregistered) 2008-03-15 21:43:46

my name is terry wagar I'm e-mailing you because I'm at a loss as to what i can do about a very dangerous murder conspiracy against me and others, for over 2 and a half years I've suffered from this conspiracy, it began { as best as i can tell,} when my wife joan wagar started having a affair with a co-worker named eric carlson, there affair started around April of 2005, i had reason to believe they was trying to kill me back then but i wasnt sure at the time, I'm very very sure now! there is a very interesting fact about eric that joan tried to hide from me and my daughters, he is almost identical in appearance to me! my wife nicknamed him doubleclick, when i learned of my wifes affair i also learned of that nickname and asked joan "why do you call him doubleclick " she said " oh thats what everyone calls him at work," ever since my wife joan insisted her affair was over, it never ended, year and a half all kinds of odd things was happening i started getting very sick from time to time, i suspected she was poisoning me but was not sure at the time, i am now! in early 2006 around Feb or mar i went to the hospital asking to be tested because my wife was talking in her sleep saying she was poisoning me, i went to OHSU and signed in, they informed me that its unlikely that they will find anything but they took my vitals and i waited in the lobby, i waited 4 and a half hours and they never called me back to be checked, and no officers came to question me about my concerns. so i went home, i could tell no one there cared. this is just too long to explain so i will try to get to the point, on march 26th of 2007 at 5;55 am i put a audio recorder in joans purse because i heard my wife whispering to someone in her bedroom, { i slept on the couch, our marriage was falling apart.} i heard what sounded like a guy whispering back, so i put my recorder in her purse expecting to finally catch joan in the act and laid down pretending to still be asleep, ten minutes later my wife left for work, what i caught on there was a lot more than i expected, i caught a murder conspiracy! i didn't know it right away because the audio i got is like 17 hours long, when i heard on it she was with eric two days later i left her and moved in with my oldest daughter shawna, i spent the next week and a half on and off trying to listen to this audio, it didn't take long to figure out i was being framed for something by my wife and her lover, and they had help! lots of help, i learned i was under INVESTIGATION BY THE FBI and these INVESTIGATORS were good friends with joan and eric and they all met up at our apartment that morning in joans bedroom, they climbed in through joans window, i learned they were there to frame me as a pedophile, eric was posing for pictures in kayles bedroom,{ our youngest daughter,} while the INVESTIGATOR named ERICA { last name unknown to me.} was taking pictures of him while kayle slept, after words eric climbed out joans window and waited for her in her car, and a john ray climbed in and helped joan put something on our computer and then he left the way he came, joan finished getting ready for work and picked up her purse and left for work, once outside joan was talking to these INVESTIGATORS and discussing what they was going to do next, joan and eric on the ride to work was discussing what they was going to say to other employees when they get there, joan mentioned to eric {you woke her up} referring to kayle, and then they discussed breaking into shawnas apartment with ERICA, after lots of listening to that audio i learned joan eric and erica planed to rape shawna and murder her and then frame me for this! they planed to use a signed check of mine to purchase a gun in my name, remember eric looks almost like me in appearance, eric was going to use my ID and one of my checks to purchase a gun, joan was instructed to collect my sperm, eric was going to rape and murder shawna, erica was going to plant my sperm on shawnas body along with other false evidence, joan and eric met up at walmart along with vickie {joans sister} and the investigators and was waiting at the front door for someone to let them in, other employees showed up and the investigators pretended to have caught me in the act, [ referring to eric in kayles room,} and saying they got me on fotogenic, once inside the investigators proceed to put on a phony show of investigating while in the presence of walmart employees while joan and eric and vickie are trashing my name to there fellow employees turning everyone there against me, joan was even addmeting eric has been impersonating me for other crimes, after hours and hours of the investigators claiming in walmart employees presence that i was doing wrong things and joan and eric telling countless lies about me the investigators gave permission to all of them to pedifie me, joan started printing out flyers about me at walmart,{ unknown to me whether they used them or not.} i learned they had me under a illegal video survealence the hole apartment had hidden cameras and the investigators asked there supervisor to take 6;30 off of joan because john ray broke in there, when i left joan and moved in to my daughters apartment about 3 or 4 days later the FBI took over the apartment above shawna and they proceeded to spread rumors in shawnas neiborhood, and was spying on us as well with hidden cameras, they didn't know at that time that i knew they were up there, the ceiling in shawnas apartment has no insulation so i could hear them up there talking about editing my audio and discussing ways of killing me, i knew because they are members of authorities i couldn't get help calling 911, not to mention i was very worried for my family's safety i was afraid to tell shawna about this at this time for her own safety so i just continued to listen to the audio trying to learn as much about this as i could but for my own safety i pretended to not understand it well, about a week and a half after i left joan on April 7th donna { joans mother who also lives at shawnas apartment complex, } asked shawna if i could go to her apartment to fix her computer she said it wouldn't work on the Internet, i didn't want to but shawna insisted so i went over to Donna with shawna and tried to fix her computer, donna offered me a cup of coffee and i accepted, she brought me a cup of coffee and what looked like a mayonaze lid filled with sugar, i put 2 or 3 spoonfuls in my coffee and was sipping while working on her computer, finally i told donna i cant fix it and that maybe she should get a new computer, i drank up my coffee and me and shawna left to go back to shawnas apartment which isn't far away, by the time i got to the stairs i started not feeling well, once inside i really started feeling very sick and needed to lie down, fifteen minutes later my head felt like there was acid eating away at me from the inside, not thinking clearly i called Joanne asking if she could take me to the hospital, during the drive there joan was looking at her rear view mirror a whole hell of a lot, which gave me the suspicion we were being followed, keep in mind neither joan nor those investigators knew yet that i knew about them, once at the hospital i was so fucked up and hurting in my head that i needed a wheelchair, once i was admitted and taken back to a emergency room i waited and waited and no doctor ever came and examed me, one person came in acting like a doctor but never examed me, he only wanted to put his finger in my ass supposed for a colon test of some sort, but he never asked me what was wrong, never examed my eyes or mouth or ears, never took my vitals, never took a urine sample, i was holding my head in severe pain and all he wanted was to put his finger in my ass, once done he left, a half hour later a male nurse brought me a bottle of something to drink saying i need to drink the whole bottle and then i was going to some room to have a kind of ex ray of some sort, never once did a doctor examine me nor did a doctor come in to explain what was going on, after i drank the bottle the nurse took me to a room for this ex ray then brought me back to my room, about a hour later a doctor came and explained that the only thing they could find wrong was there was a little bleeding in my colon and he recommended i follow up with a colanoscopie, needless to say i was totally shocked at his blatant attempt to ignore the fact that NOBODY EXAMED ME!!! i knew at this time that those investigators had somehow interfered with my medical treatment and done something to prevent a doctor from examine me! i went back to shawnas apartment still in pain in my head, it felt like acid burning in there, and to this day i am still in pain in my head over this, about a week after this i stopped pretending to know nothing about this crap with joan and the investigators and looked up at the ceiling where they were and called them a bunch of criminals and murderers and that i was completely discuss ted with them, shawna was home at this time but didn't understand why i did that, an hour later shawna left for work and after that all hell broke loose up stairs, a whole lot of people in suits was going up there and there was some yelling and they seemed very angry, a lot of activity going on for the rest of that day in that apartment above shawnas place, at around 8 or 9 that nite several people went up there talking very loudly acting like they were looking at something and said very loudly { yep thats a pedophile alright.} and then him and a few others from that apartment ran out of there yelling at the top of there lungs through out the hole neaborhood calling me a pedophile, from this point on they was pedifieing me openly in shawnas neaborhood, just flat out calling me a pedophile to others in that neaborhood, this hole time i spent most of my time on the floor in pain from donna poisoning me, i flat out knew i could get no help calling 911 since these were people in authority doing this to me, they stopped doing this when shawna was around they didn't want her to know about it, i told shawna about this but she didn't believe me because she never witnessed any of it and no one at w...

 

WOW.
Lisa (Unregistered) 2008-07-21 11:41:50

I hope you have received some help.
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